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 ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today

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PostSubject: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:53 am

They begin at 11:45 am eastern US time. Thats what the news said. Keep your eyes and ears open though cuz it may start a little sooner than that because first I heard 11 am then 11:45. It will be broadcast on HLN and TRU tv channel I think as well. You may also watch online. (I'll post that link in a separate thread)

Here we go..


Discuss:)

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:05 am

Damn, I've got a doctors' appointment at 1:00. Then work at 5:00. If I miss anything good, D, let me know. Take notes of the highlights or something like that so you can tell me, please, please, and pretty please. I'll be able to watch it all day the rest of the week.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:32 am

I think Tracy is going to take some notes. I'm so tired, I havent much sleep!!!! I may try to take notes:)

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:31 pm

Well so far I think the defense is presenting a somewhat compelling case but he is stumbling and fumbling over his words and is not always clear. The prosecution was very clear and precise and presented their opening statement with confidence. The one thing that stood out to me from the defense side was addition of the 8 pills Michael supposedly took besides the propofol. That was the first I'd heard of that.

That recording was heart breaking. That was just horrible. Why did Michael do that to himself and why did the doctors do it to him? They did that to him. Instead of giving him help or turning him away, they did that. Just heart breaking. I feel for the family having to hear that.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:37 pm

HLN sucks sucks sucks!!! Commercials during testimony????? They didnt interrupt OJ!! Granted it was on another channel but that channel, now tru tv, isnt even showing the trial like they said they would. All they showed was the opening statements. Theres nothing worse for me than trying to watch something like this on the damn computer. GRRRR....sorry had to rant.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:38 pm

So people are questioning the recording. Maybe manipulated? Maybe not him at all? I think its him. Manipulated? I can buy that but I can also buy heavily sedated.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:22 pm

Just read Kenny Orgeta's letter to Randy Phillips dated Jun 20, 2009 talking about Michael needing help. It is heart wrenching. I've imagined him doing not so well but this letter revealed worse than I thought.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Yeah that letter to Randy Phillips got me as well. I know Michael was an adult but come on. Somebody could have done something in those days where he was shivering and incoherent! A blanket and a foot massage is nice but how about a ride to hospital to get checked out just to be on the safe side????? At least Kenny showed some concern though. Its more than I can say for alot of other people.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:31 pm

That recording was definitely heartbreaking. However, the more I listened to it, the less it sounded like Michael talking. In fact, to me, there's one point in the recording that sounds exactly like Joe. That was the first thing I thought the first time I heard it and kept thinking it sounded like Joe every other time they played it. Next time I hear it, I'll try to remember the exact spot it sounds like Joe so I can tell you all. Maybe you'll hear it.

I'm like you, Dareme. I hate watching this stuff on my computer. But I still think HLN is doing the better job of any of the other ones. I don't like the commercials either but I guess they have to make money somehow.

Also, I didn't think the defense came out blasting. But I think that will happen later on. I'm sure we're in for a bunch of surprises. I just want to know the TRUTH.

Annie, where did you read that letter from Kenny Ortega? I missed that part in the trial and I'd like to read it.

Rant away, D. We understand. I think we all feel that way in some form or fashion. Actually, I think I'm more confused than I was before. Oh well, at least we didn't have to watch Nancy Grace and HER wardrobe malfunction tonight. Showing her nipplies on Dancing with the Stars last night was enough for anybody.

What's that old country western song? Something about "happy trails to you". I'm gonna change it for now and say "HAPPY TRIALS TO YOU...UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN". facegrin
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:37 pm

So... I listened to the audio of entire thing at work... well, most of it anyway. This article over here:

http://new.music.yahoo.com/michael-jackson/news/michael-jackson-images-dominate-opening-of-death-trial--62006367

is saying they showed pictures of dead Michael on a hospital gurney. Did anybody catch it? Like I said, I just listened, but I did not hear this part and did not see any exibits....

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:39 pm

OMG... it's on TMZ.... I don't know what to say... this is just horrible...

http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/27/michael-jackson-death-photo-prosecution-doctored-cleaned-david-walgren-opening-statement-picture-poll/


This is really distrubing... I just dont know what else to say.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:42 pm

I don't know why prosecution did what they did with the photo... I don't think it matters. But it's just horrible they used it as background to their presentation, first of all... And second of all, does not matter which way you look at it or how you change it, it looks horrible...

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:50 pm

Agreed, KSK. I got the feeling they were trying to compare MJ alive and MJ dead. Well, duh, he's obviously not going to look the same dead as he did alive. I think it was horrible and stupid on their part to show that picture. The people in that courtroom are not so ignorant as to think he was going to look the same.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:43 am

Well I have to disagree with you guys. Thinking about it all day now, I personally feel the picture, darkened the way they did it, was not horrible at all. I was shocked by the picture because I wasnt expecting it but the prosecution did exactly what they should have with the shock value of the picture. I think they darkened it possibly to soften it up knowing the public would see it. If the picture was bright and stark like hospital lighting, I feel it would have been more shocking. TMZ has it lightened up, which makes the quality even worse and I feel had it been shown that way, it would have shocked even more. I do feel bad for the loved ones of Michael seeing the picture. Thats got to be so hard for them but they cant not show these things just because family is in the room. They have to do what it takes to prove their case. I dont think he looks bad at all lying there on the gurney. Its sad yes, but he does not look horrible. In fact, in that particular picture, and its not great quality, he looks quite good compared to what we have heard about him looking like a hospice or cancer patient. All this mess about how he was unrecognizable is just full on baloney.

I just have to say boo to the people calling foul over the showing of this picture. Not you guys I mean the people who are really ranting over this. It was practically an outcry that we did not see him in an open casket. People said it would have brought them closure. Now when they see him they are screaming that its an outrage for this picture to have been shown. I'm still, for now, going to say "if" he is really gone, I'm glad to have seen that picture because now I know he didnt look bad. To me he looks quite peaceful. It bothered me a bit at first that his mouth was open but its to be expected really so I got over it. The picture is bad quality so maybe that helps. If it were large and HD quality it might look different and I might feel a bit different.

I do wonder why he was in a gown. If he was dead at home, then why would they put a gown on him there? The only reason I can think of, was for the family's sake. And thats a pretty good reason. They did do cpr and other life saving techniques there, so there could have been bruising to the chest, (didnt the autopsy say as much?) or other things. I cant think of another reason. Policy? But that doesnt make any sense. Whatever, it may not even be important really.

The tape I feel is him like I said above. I just dont know if he is heavily sedated, very probable, or the recording is slowed down. To me that is not as important as the reason Murray recorded this. Why? I hope the question will be asked. The tape bothers me more than the picture.

Damn this is long..anyway, the picture is not yet enough for me to say with 100% certainty that he is gone. That sounds crazy, loony bin basket weaving crazy, but I'll wait for the good quality pictures if they ever come along. And I'm not jumping on the photoshop bandwagon without a damn good reason to. We are into the trial now. I'm pretty sure it wouldnt get this far if this was a faked death. Pretty sure. I feel stupid, even horrible and cringey creepy thinking he may be alive even if that thought is a dim hope, but the alternative is dead and I dont like that. It looks more and more like I may just have to accept it, as hard as that is, and move on.


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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:33 am

Some people are saying that it is photoshopped because his legs look so short. I see what they mean in comparison to his body. But it's not hard to lay in a bed and have a pic taken.. No need for photoshop or a dummy IMO.. Would be silly to do that. All these pics from ambulance to this ARE Michael. Give me one good reason it's not! Why use a dummy or photoshop when u can just lay down pose then go home? Not sure if he is alive either. I was shocked too to see this pic too. Also, Michaels mouth isn't so much open as we thought.. Look closely, he still has the tubing going down his throat.


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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:06 am

Suki, this is the letter I'm talking about. Don't know if it's what you are asking. I don't have the source. I actually got it from another forum.



Randy

I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. If you need me to come to the house, just give me a call in the morning. My concern is now that we've brought the doctor into the fold and have played the tough love, now or never card is that the artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light. It's going to take a strong therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our chereographer that during the artists costume fitting with his designer tonight they noticed he's lost more weight. As far as i can tell there is no one taking care responsibility (caring for) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chills, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally it's important for everyone to know , I believe that he really wants this. It would shatter him, Break his heart if we pulled the plug. He's terribly frightened it's all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if i was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs

Sincerely,
Kenny
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:13 am

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:46 pm

Hi girls. I'm back here for the trial - I need all my friends around at a time like this!

I have been losing hope since the prelim in January. I always maintained that the facts we had were probably breadcrumbs, and missing great chunks of information, and we have had to try and make sense of the picture from dibs and drabs. Now we have more info coming out, it looks like he has gone, although there are a lot of things that don't make sense still.

UK TV discussed the photo this morning, which was just as well or I would have walked into the newsagent and seen the gurney photo on the front of The Sun today, with no warning.

I still don't understand these things:

If Michael had used an anaesthetists in the past, why did he not use one in 2009? Why get a cardiologist to do the job? Several people have said he asked them about propofol in 2009, and they explained the risks to him, but still he used Murray. Makes no sense.

If Michael had taken Propofol before, whether on tour or in the dentist, he surely knew that monitoring equipment was essential? So why agree to Murray giving propofol for 6 weeks with no equipment?

The recording was heartbreaking, but as Jermaine said, we don't know what he had taken before that - it might not be propofol. AND it doesn't prove he was an addict either. It DOES prove that Murray knew how MJ was being affected by SOMETHING, so he can't continue to go around saying 'Michael was in perfect helath and I didn't know he was taking other stuff'.


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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:41 pm

Hi Vbond waves

I agree Tracy about the photoshop. Thats why I said I'm not jumping that bandwagon. It would have to be something way off for me to consider it. And his legs do look short but its because the picture is somewhat shortened by the effect used on it. If you look closely you can kinda see where his feet and the end of the gurney are but the effect there kind of blurs it out in a way. About the mouth being open...I didnt even know it was open until TMZ posted a black and white version of this which made it much clearer and it shocked me a great deal. But like I said I'm over that. I personally cannot see a tube in his mouth but I was going to look more at the picture and see if there were tubes but havent done it yet. The TMZ lightened and contrasted photo added in some extra noise I noticed and I wanted to discern the noise from actual objects in the picture.


Vbond to your question about why Michael used a cardiologist...I think, for lack of a better term, he thought he was invincible and he very naively thought he just needed to be monitored. I think he felt the procedure was simple and could be done by anyone with some medical knowledge and a willingness to do whatever he asked for a pay off. The point for me though is not what Michael thought, as reckless as he was with his own care, its that the doctor agreed to do this. I dont question Michael in that regard. He did this out of desperation. Desperate people do desperate and stupid things to get what they want. I do feel Michael was dependent again on demerol and I blame dr klein for that. I do believe he kept Michael dependent on it so that Michael would keep seeing him. And as we have learned, demerol causes lack of sleep. I know what its like to be lacking sleep. No not for days, but I know about insomnia. It causes me to have physical pains, dry mouth, nausea, heart burn, heart palpitations and panic attacks. I can only imagine how bad it would be with days of no sleep.

I agree Murray knew Michaels problems with drugs. The recording proves that. I dont believe Michael was a junkie looking for a high, but I do believe he was physically dependent on certain drugs to get him to sleep and to help with pain. Dr Klein should be answering to this. It is well known that Michael would go to Kleins office to get sleep. Now why would that be? Because Klein was giving him demerol, and probably propofol but we dont know that, he just wasnt stupid enough to do it outside of his office and without proper care. If Klein kept records, then this could be documented to see if Michael had been to see him the night before or that morning. Remember that recording was done at 9:05 am. I feel Klein deserves some blame here. Dont know if we'll see it happen.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:48 pm

Paris balled up and crying on the floor while Prince stands there shocked and slowly crying cries Heart breaking. This trial is making it so real. It felt real the moment I heard he died but then it became this unreal thing and now its all too real again:(

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:24 pm

His legs do seem too short... i didn't even notice that before... he's got long legs... why would they appear so short in the photo? And I do see a tube in the mouth... watched ER too many times to know they leave it in there right after the person dies... or after they pronounce person, I should say. But why would they take a picture of him like that? Who did it and why??? Is that like a standard practice or did someone just snached it? Did anyone hear any explanation about the origin or the pic?

his poor mom... has to see and hear all that over and over... if we feel like this, I can only image what his family must be going through.

I never catch the beginning of the trial, when people arrive and such. Who's in the courtroom from the family besides his mom and La Toya?

Jeez, this is just so unreal to be real, isn't it? And we are only in day 2. They are going to bring up more stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:09 am

I missed who was at the trial today. I have not heard why the pic was taken. Its not an autopsy photo, its obviously at the hospital and I dont know why they would take a pic at the hospital other than its Michael Jackson. His legs/feet are there, you just have to look closely:) The angle is weird and the end of the gurney seems sort of cut off in the picture.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 am

That picture devastated me. I saw it on The View. My question is why. Now, all day whenever I hear a MJ song I see that picture. They are playing all of his songs this week. On a local station, 92.5.
I don't want to remember him like that.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:58 am

That is very interesting. It seemed Like Kenny was trying to get him the help he needed and didn't feel he was able to do the Concert.


AnnieAreYouOK wrote:
Suki, this is the letter I'm talking about. Don't know if it's what you are asking. I don't have the source. I actually got it from another forum.



Randy

I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. If you need me to come to the house, just give me a call in the morning. My concern is now that we've brought the doctor into the fold and have played the tough love, now or never card is that the artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light. It's going to take a strong therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our chereographer that during the artists costume fitting with his designer tonight they noticed he's lost more weight. As far as i can tell there is no one taking care responsibility (caring for) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chills, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally it's important for everyone to know , I believe that he really wants this. It would shatter him, Break his heart if we pulled the plug. He's terribly frightened it's all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if i was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs

Sincerely,
Kenny
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:48 am

You know I was looking at the picture and it hit me how horrible it must have been for his kids, his mother and his family to walk into that room and say their goodbyes with that tube protruding out of his mouth and that tape over his face. Why dont they remove these things? I have seen autopsy shows before and I have never seen a body with the tube still down the throat. Why did they leave it in? Is this a new thing? Anyway, I was just thinking about Jermaine or Latoya saying how they kissed him all over his face and stuff and I just cant get the tube out of my mind. Its morbid I know, but that would bother me to no end.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:26 am

The tubing most likely was removed before his body was viewed by the family.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:53 am

I think so.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:59 am

dareme wrote:
Hi Vbond waves

I agree Tracy about the photoshop. Thats why I said I'm not jumping that bandwagon. It would have to be something way off for me to consider it. And his legs do look short but its because the picture is somewhat shortened by the effect used on it. If you look closely you can kinda see where his feet and the end of the gurney are but the effect there kind of blurs it out in a way. About the mouth being open...I didnt even know it was open until TMZ posted a black and white version of this which made it much clearer and it shocked me a great deal. But like I said I'm over that. I personally cannot see a tube in his mouth but I was going to look more at the picture and see if there were tubes but havent done it yet. The TMZ lightened and contrasted photo added in some extra noise I noticed and I wanted to discern the noise from actual objects in the picture.


Vbond to your question about why Michael used a cardiologist...I think, for lack of a better term, he thought he was invincible and he very naively thought he just needed to be monitored. I think he felt the procedure was simple and could be done by anyone with some medical knowledge and a willingness to do whatever he asked for a pay off. The point for me though is not what Michael thought, as reckless as he was with his own care, its that the doctor agreed to do this. I dont question Michael in that regard. He did this out of desperation. Desperate people do desperate and stupid things to get what they want. I do feel Michael was dependent again on demerol and I blame dr klein for that. I do believe he kept Michael dependent on it so that Michael would keep seeing him. And as we have learned, demerol causes lack of sleep. I know what its like to be lacking sleep. No not for days, but I know about insomnia. It causes me to have physical pains, dry mouth, nausea, heart burn, heart palpitations and panic attacks. I can only imagine how bad it would be with days of no sleep.

I agree Murray knew Michaels problems with drugs. The recording proves that. I dont believe Michael was a junkie looking for a high, but I do believe he was physically dependent on certain drugs to get him to sleep and to help with pain. Dr Klein should be answering to this. It is well known that Michael would go to Kleins office to get sleep. Now why would that be? Because Klein was giving him demerol, and probably propofol but we dont know that, he just wasnt stupid enough to do it outside of his office and without proper care. If Klein kept records, then this could be documented to see if Michael had been to see him the night before or that morning. Remember that recording was done at 9:05 am. I feel Klein deserves some blame here. Dont know if we'll see it happen.

I know what you mean about Michael being invincible. This is what scares me most; that Klein and whoever feelgood doctors there were in 2009 and before, made it so easy to get Demerol and whatever else, that Michael felt it was normal to take this stuff regularly/needed to take it regularly. After all, if a doc is prescribing it, it must be OK, right? Also the recording shows that MJ possibly had NO IDEA of just how rambling he sounded when he left the message for Murray. So like I said, to him it was normal. Scares me.

I think the judge is trying to concentrate on the care Murray gave, or rather, DID NOT give to Michael, rather than muddy the waters with Klein/Etok/Lee et al. I'm sorry but if Murray took the job not knowing what Michael was on, then he certainly should have realised once on the job. Did he ever speak to Klein and ascertain what he was prescribing? Nobody has even mentioned him doing that. I kind of agree with the judge on this, it was down to Murray to do proper job, regardless of Michael's history in the past etc etc.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:27 pm

I agree Vbond.

**Except I disagree with them not letting Klein testify. His records will be there and therefore so should he.

paulie...the tube was still down his throat at autopsy so it was in when the family saw him.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:48 pm

I think they say him before autopsy. They went in after he was pronounced and before he was taken for autopsy. I am pretty sure we have not gotten to the autopsy part and pictures of that, if they show them. I really dont want them to see those, but they might show them. And I think the defense will be the side to shiw them, if they want to claim he was an addict. And there would not be a gown during autopsy.

Still the tube was there when family saw him, which is bad.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:49 pm

Shiw = show

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:17 pm

Yes, in the autopsy report they state that the endotracheal tube is still in the throat.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:00 pm

Well hopefully they will have the decency to inform the family when the pictures will be shown so that they can decide whether they want to be there or not.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:10 pm

Legally, the next of "kin" gets a copy of the completed autopsy results. If there were any pics, the family might have seen them already.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:44 pm

They could have, but being a criminal case, I'm thinking no. Even if they have seen them, it would still be the decent thing to do by warning them the day they will be shown. They were very shocked and saddened by the pic they have shown so far.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:48 pm

Yes, it was, but very effective by the prosecution. Thats all they care about at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:12 am

Yes it was very effective I agree and it should be shown. Respect for the family should be given though if only just to let them know said pics will be shown on said day. Its been done before and could easily be done here as well. They know though these pictures will be shown, I'm not sure they knew about the hospital one though. They for sure did not know about the recording. Its not required for them to be told by any means, but in my opinion(worthless lol) it should be done.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:11 am

I agree that anything that could be shocking or traumatizing to the family should be known ahead of time. I don't think that the family could compromise this case. If anything, at least tell Katherine good grief!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:18 pm

Alberto Alvarez testified that he went into the room and Michael was on the bed. At some point a 911 call was made and they were told to put Michael on the floor.

Fahim Mohammed(sp) at some point came into the room and saw Michaels feet on the floor sticking out past the bed and did not see his body cuz it was on the floor.

At some point Murray said who knows cpr and Alberto Alvarez went over and did chest compressions.

Paramedic Senneth testified to coming into the room, the first paramedic to do so, and Michael was partially on the bed, his upper body, and partially off the bed were his legs and they were to the side of the bed held/moved by a security guard. He testified to Michaels skin being cool to the touch.

Paramedic Blunt testified to coming into the room, second to do so, and Michaels full body being on the bed. He testified that Michaels skin was warm on the bed and he alluded to it being warm simply from him laying on it. He said once Michael was moved to the foot of the bed on the floor his skin was cool.

So, were Murray and a security guard in the process of putting Michael back on the bed at the time the paramedics arrived??? This testimony is confusing to me. The first paramedic said they were moving Murray off the bed, but the security/bodyguards testimony is that he was off the bed before hand so I ask again...were they moving Michael back onto the bed because thats where paramedic 1 and 2 saw him, paramedic 1 seeing him in transition whichever direction, he said off, but paramedic 2 who some minutes later followed saw Michael fully on the bed. Which of course just means that Murray and security put him fully on the bed when the first paramedic came in.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:28 pm

bitchslap

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:55 pm

I forgot to say that Paramedic Blunt(actually Blount I think) said Michaels skin was warm cuz he was laying on the bed. Well if a person is dead and cool to the touch, they are going to be cool to the touch where ever they lay. The bed may be warm but I wouldnt think the deceased would be?

*Also to correct myself again..I think Senneth maybe Senneff. I missed the first few moments of his testimony so I didnt hear him spell his name.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:01 pm

That is ABSOLUTELY correct! It doesn't matter if a dead body is in 100 degree weather laying on aluminum foil on the beach, their skin will be cool to the touch PERIOD!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:25 pm

I agree with you, dareme. I listened to all of them and these inconsistencies jumped out at me right away. But for some reason nobody in the courtroom zoomed in on this for now. They have not called people back or anything to clarify. I kept trying to imagine how Michael's body could have been in that half off the bed position. Beats me. So looks like they were trying to put him back on the bed when paramedics arrived??? But neither Alvarez nor paramedics mentioned it, so what in the hell was going on???

What was the worst thing to realize today was that paramedics felt they would have saved Michael if the asshole called 911 right away. Just for that he should go to jail.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:52 am

Someone said that Alvarez testified he was on the 'phone to 911 when moving the patient, and he had the phone under his chin. I missed that bit - did anyone else hear that?

I agree this is not adding up, but then nothing much has added up from day one in 2009. NOW it seems Murray is saying he only gave saline and some lorazepam for dehydration and exhaustion. What happened to that list of things he supposedy administered from 2am that morning?
There is some serious lying going on, seemingly from anyone around MJ in 2009. What shit are they covering up?
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:01 pm

Yes he said he braced the phone between his ear and shoulder.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:55 pm

The paramedics also said his eyes were open, pupils dilated and eyes dry. To me that means someone who has been dead for at least 15 minutes or longer.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:41 pm

Yes paulie I agree. I dont know how long it would be, but from the their descriptions it would be some time. Its definitely not the 1 minute Murray says it was.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:46 pm

And so far no mention of that helper woman Murray requested... Was she there? Was she not there? Nobody mentioned her besides that he requested her. Was it only for the tour and Murray have not hired anyone yet?

What about that cheap ass monitor that he got? Did you guys hear? He did not even bother to purchase batteries. One of the guards gave him batteries for it. Looks like Murray only took things serious when shit hit the fan. Sounds like he approached things as some type of easy money no worries kind of thing. Ridiculous that he's still walking free and even allowed to practice in TX.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:32 pm

I know. Its an outrage that even if he is convicted he will only get 4 years max and probably not spend a day due to over crowding.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:44 am

TracyK wrote:
Some people are saying that it is photoshopped because his legs look so short. I see what they mean in comparison to his body. But it's not hard to lay in a bed and have a pic taken.. No need for photoshop or a dummy IMO.. Would be silly to do that. All these pics from ambulance to this ARE Michael. Give me one good reason it's not! Why use a dummy or photoshop when u can just lay down pose then go home? Not sure if he is alive either. I was shocked too to see this pic too. Also, Michaels mouth isn't so much open as we thought.. Look closely, he still has the tubing going down his throat.


ARE YOU *^^^**%$$$ KIDDING ME. Why on earth to we have to see that! THAT IS JUST SICK! AM DONE I CAN NOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE! CALL ME WEAK, I DONT CARE. THIS IS JUST MORMID.
I AM CRYING RIGHT NOW.

I AM JUST GOING TO WAIT FOR THE VERDICT!

I WANT TO REMEMBER MICHAEL WHEN HE WASN'T SLASHED BY THE MEDIA LIES.

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