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 ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:55 pm

The day before was tough to listen to. Anestesiologist's theory of how it all went made it too real for me. At some point I was tearing up even. I just kept feeling like I am there watching Michael die in those terrible conditions and it really made me feel crappy, and helpless, and mad and disgusted with Murray!!! That dick was chatting on the phone and had no idea how dangerous was what he agreed to do! He really had no idea, didn't he??? How idiotic can you be with greed clouding your head! I feel like his girlfriend's testimony helped the prosecution not only to establish timeline, but it showed clearly what Murray was after -- money and closeness to such star as Michael was. When he took that slot to come and meet Michael and made that visit like a surprise gift for her??? That to me showed exactly what was going though that dickhead's head. And her reaction as well!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:47 am

I think he is all over the place for a reason.. to try to trip up anyone that could help the prosecution. If they stumble over their words it makes them seem less credible and not qualified to properly evaluate what happened.. Also bringing in the fact that the star witness of the day testified against someone he openly disliked BECAUSE he disliked him but not good either!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:11 am

Isnt the doctor he testified against the same doctor whose assistant said he would make fun of Michael and play with his penis while he was under??

I'm sure he didnt testify against him BECAUSE he didnt like him, but the defense made it look that way. I hope the prosecution clears that up.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:04 am

Well I am not sure about any of what you said.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:34 am

I'm not either lol. The docs name just sounded familiar and made me think of that.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:23 am

ksk wrote:
The day before was tough to listen to. Anestesiologist's theory of how it all went made it too real for me. At some point I was tearing up even. I just kept feeling like I am there watching Michael die in those terrible conditions and it really made me feel crappy, and helpless, and mad and disgusted with Murray!!! That dick was chatting on the phone and had no idea how dangerous was what he agreed to do! He really had no idea, didn't he??? How idiotic can you be with greed clouding your head! I feel like his girlfriend's testimony helped the prosecution not only to establish timeline, but it showed clearly what Murray was after -- money and closeness to such star as Michael was. When he took that slot to come and meet Michael and made that visit like a surprise gift for her??? That to me showed exactly what was going though that dickhead's head. And her reaction as well!

Thing is, Shafer's theory is just that, a theory. All those graphs showing what he thinks happened, puts MJ asleep for about 8 hours. Murray said MJ was awake until 10am, and then he gave the propofol, not from the point he got home, as in Shafer's theory (actually MJ would still be travelling from the Staples Center when Shafer said he got the first propofol hit). So it is possible that even 'experts' can't model what happened to MJ, using the amounts left in his body to extrapolate back how they might have collected there. We need to hear Murray's defense now, cos things aint adding up.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:20 pm

Yeah thats true Vbond but thats also assuming that Murray is telling the truth and the odds of him telling the truth are pretty slim. I dont believe anything he says. If he told me the sky was blue at this point, I would not believe him. Its plain for me that he gave more than what he said and he was away from Michael for longer than he said and he tried to cover his tracks but he failed. The defense is going to shred the evidence, or try to. I just hope the prosecution is on their game. That woman, I think her name is Brazil or something like that, she's a bull dog I think! lol. Her and Walgren, they're like good cop/ bad cop. I think she could tear someone a new one! I hope they can rip apart any theory from the defense.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:48 pm

Yeah I know dareme. I have this horrible feeling that we will never know the truth, at least not from this trial. Maybe in a few years or so when someone finally pieces it all together, but I might be dead and gone by then - it's so frustrating. whipit
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:03 am

Oh I hope it doesnt take that long!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:00 pm

Its interesting the different stuff that comes out in trial. The testimony about the dvd was a bit different than what they said before. What they said before, and made sense, was that they didnt have anymore footage or couldnt get anymore footage because the video recycled every 24 hours. But on the stand the guy said they could have gotten more. They could have gotten 24 hours worth if they wanted to or something like that. So why didnt they?? Now it makes no sense to me.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:12 pm

Probably because everyone thought MJ was just another celeb overdose. Remember, it wasn't treated as homicide for about 4 days - by then the tapes had been wiped/overwritten, and the scene had been trampled by the family clearing the house.

Basically, a crap job by LAPD.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:04 pm

vbond wrote:
Yeah I know dareme. I have this horrible feeling that we will never know the truth, at least not from this trial. Maybe in a few years or so when someone finally pieces it all together, but I might be dead and gone by then - it's so frustrating. whipit

Yep Me too vbond! But, I hope you won't be dead and gone in a few years. :(
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:00 am

Basically, a crap job by LAPD

This is so true faceplain

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:36 pm

DITTO, D!

So, did anyone watch the short session this morning? Those witnesses for Murray that are his patients were so cute, especially the little old woman. What a spitfire!
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:42 pm

No I missed it all. Glad I did. Not interested in hearing anyone sing his praises.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:02 am

I did see an old guy testimony... So that's why I could not find it anymore! Short session? Why was it cut short?

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:26 am

I dont know why. Scheduling conflicts usually. I think the defense only has 2 witnesses left then I think its over. I hope the prosecution proved their case. To me they did but I dont know about the jury.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:43 pm

After today, it's going to be a tough decision for the jury. They showed records from Dr. Klein from April, May, and June. Unbelievable! According to the reports, he was giving MJ Botox and Restylane treatments. At the same time, he was giving him 300 milligrams of demerol and 1 or 2 mgs of midazolam. No wonder MJ couldn't half walk when he came out of there. That is an astronomical amount of demerol especially for the treatments. If MJ was addicted, Klein was a large part of the problem. Why he's not being charged with something, I don't know. Anyone else see it today?
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:23 pm

I listened to parts if it. I don't think it matters about demerol in this case. But we'll see what jury thought.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:03 am

Demerol was not in his system. It has no bearing. Quite frankly bringing in Dr Kleins medical records made no sense. Dr. Klein wasnt giving him propofol in his bedroom. Everything Dr Klein did, whether good or bad, was done in the proper setting with the proper equipment. Dr Klein did not kill Michael. If the jury bases any portion of their opinion on this testimony, then justice will not have been served.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:21 pm

Exactly.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:14 pm

Yep yep!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:49 pm

Oh, I agree with you, ladies. I just wish something could be found to charge Klein with. Even given in the proper setting, the amounts of drugs he gave MJ were ridiculous. I guess I just see Klein as an enabler and it pisses me off. Depending on how long he had been giving these amounts to MJ, it could definitely have made MJ dependent.

I realize it has nothing to do with what Murray did or did not do. It just breaks my heart to think that Klein and probably various other doctors could have let it go that far.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:59 pm

I know Suki, and these dodgy doctors all seem willing to draw other doctors into their vile game. How much $ can we make out of Michael Jackson? (and other celebs too for that matter)
Sickening. I really hope this trial initiates investigations into all these doctors, and I use the term loosely.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:08 pm

Suki dont get me wrong. Klein should answer to this. I feel he was keeping Michael dependent on the demerol. I really do. There is no reason for that amount of demerol for those kinds of procedures. And for Kleins Lawyer to say he didnt know about Michaels insomnia is a load of crap. Michael used go to his office to sleep. How do you think he slept? I think with a little help from demerol. Truth be told, those records are fudged on some days. You cant explain giving anything to someone to come sleep in your office so maybe there are alot of "procedures" listed that never really happened.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:43 pm

I agree!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:17 pm

That's true. In fact, Klein's initials were not on all of the entries in the records. There were someone else's. And no one seemed to know who the initials belonged to...at least not in the courtroom. I also have a feeling that Klein could have been using propofol or something like it to help MJ sleep. If I remember correctly, there was an anesthesiologist in the same building. And I do remember Klein saying that he used the anesthesiologist during some procedures with MJ. Still just pisses me off. Seems to me that the term "Dermatologist to the Stars" needs to have "Money Hungry" added in there somewhere.


And HUBBA HUBBA, D. Great new pics. Dark sex hits the forum. idhitit ty
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:14 am

Thank you facegrin Thats like my favorite line in a song right now and I had to make a siggy with it. I've been meaning to since it came out, I just havent been into that kind of thing since the trial started. I do love how it turned out. I'm pretty happy with it:)

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:46 am

Yes I love your new avatar dareme - love it!

Klein is saying he wasn't even in LA during May, but we know MJ went to his 'office' about 4 or 5 times in May, so what were they giving him and who was doing the procedures?

Its an interesting idea that he went there to sleep, but why would he do that if Murray was already giving propofol from mid April? Wasn't he there about 4 hours one day?
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:08 pm

vbond, according to the records the court has from Klein, Michael was going in for Botox and Restylane treatments which almost never require full anesthesia nor that much in pain killers. The records also indicate that Klein was not always the one performing the procedures. If MJ was getting those treatments, more than likely Klein had a PA or something to do it. I'm also betting that he used the demerol and possibly propofol to keep Michael under (asleep) for several hours while he was there. That's probably why MJ was there so long at times.

But also remember these visits to Dr. Klein didn't start in April or May. He's been seeing Klein for years hence the probable dependence on demerol. Almost sounds like Klein was feeding him "candy". Reading Kenny Ortega's email to Randy Phillips just breaks my heart. Ortega knew something wasn't right but no one seemed to know what to do about it.

And one thing I found really interesting was that, according to the records, Klein was giving MJ injections of Restylane in the groin area for excessive sweating. Never heard of that. I wonder if they can do that for excessive head sweats (age related, you know)? That would be cool. No more wiping sweat out of my eyes in 60 degree weather!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:30 pm

MJ didn't move back to LA until Fall 2008, and according to my timeline, his visits to Klein started in February 09. I suspect he was having work done in prep for the shows, but we don't know who he was seeing in LV, so it might have started before then. We know he started asking Cherilynn Lee for propofol in March/April, but then Murray had already started with propofol from 6 April - it all seems to overlap:

propofol with Murray
vitamin injections with Lee
demerol with Klein

I still don't get why he would still be trying 'natural' sleep methods in April if Murray had started with the propofol - unless someone is lying. We have seen records of Murray ordering propofol 6 April, but not any of Lees notes, so maybe she is lying. She said she was doing blood tests, so how come she didn't pick up anything? I think Dr Etok did tests too back in March, and she found nothing, although it does depend on what they were looking for. And then why go to Kleins for sleep in April if he was getting propofol at home? Something aint right.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:33 pm

My sister and I also figured that these Botox injections could have been used for pain he might have been having as well. Since Botox relaxes those muscles and they cannot move.. Maybe he was having some pain in small areas that Klein was desensitizing.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:33 pm

Michael was definitely seeing Klein in 08.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:57 pm

Is it karma or just a strange coincidence that almost ALL of us are on here at the same time this afternoon? Maybe just a lazy Sunday afternoon with nothing else that has to be done. Well, whatever it is...HELLO EVERYONE! Hope you're all having a good day.

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:58 pm

Hiiiii I wanna go back to sleep grrrrr didn't seem to get enough rest last night... Other than that my day is going well TY!!!

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:04 pm

Me too, Trace. Another one of those bad, lack of sleep nights. I didn't go to sleep until 5:00 a.m. and then up around 10:00. Pretty sure I need a nap before I go to bed.
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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:17 pm

Great minds think alike yeppers

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:00 am

In all honesty, today was a struggle. I really thought Walgren will jump on Dr. White and beat the answers to those questions out of him. I swear he wispered: get the baseball bat out! To miss Brazil at one point or two. Seriously? The guy kept rambling and getting into these winded long answers... What a crazy day. I don't know if any of it was productive though...

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:12 am

I thought Walgren was a bad ass today. I thought he did great up until the end of the day. He has a chance to regroup now. I didnt get to see the early morning testimony. What did Brazil do???

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PostSubject: Re: ***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today   Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:52 am

I was just joking about ms Brazil lol

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