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 There was a hearing

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dareme
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PostSubject: There was a hearing   Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:51 pm

I guess the defense has officially dropped the propofol ingestion theory


http://news.yahoo.com/defense-key-tactic-jackson-case-dumped-may-202334850.html

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:26 pm

Looks to me like they dropped it a while back just not officially. Makes one wonder what the defense may have up their sleeves. I keep wondering when some of the stuff found out in the last two years is going to come out. Surely there's an explanation for the lost surveillance tapes. And all kinds of other stuff that hasn't been answered. I know this trial is about Conrad Murray but, it seems to me, that there are too many circumstances surrounding this case that involve MJ and his lifestyle/entourage that need to be solved in order to get to the truth and a valid verdict.

Let's hope the defense can bring some of this out.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:24 pm

Well they cant bring lifestyle into it because it really has no bearing on the case. And the security tapes werent lost they were recorded over. The recycled every 24 hours.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:24 pm

The defense will bring his lifestyle into it. The judge did not want this, but it is going to happen. The defense will try to paint the picture that MJ's reckless abuse of drugs finally brought him down and that it was just a matter of time.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:28 pm

You're right, Paulie, but it looks to me like the prosecution has already started doing that...in an underhanded way, of course. Just take a look at the picture of all of the medications on the bedside table. Even though a lot of it wasn't in MJ's system at the time, it still leads one to believe that he had a big-time drug problem. The defense is just going to make it look worse.

And thanks, D. I didn't know the tapes recycled like that.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:24 pm

MJ could have had a drug abuse issue, but his issue didn't insert the iv in his leg and start a propofol drip, Murray did that. I am so sick of THEM saying that his addiction killed him.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Exactly Tracy. His lifestyle has no bearing on this case. The defense will try to bring it in of course but hopefully the judge sticks to his guns and doesnt allow it.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:00 am

I have to disagree somewhat about his lifestyle having no bearing on this case. According to the autopsy report, MJ's lungs were damaged/scared as a result of using propofol and other drugs over the course of many years that would suppress his breathing while sleeping. Sooner or later that is going to catch up.

IMO MJ was a ticking time bomb and it was just a matter of time before his body would give out.

I think that will be used against him during this trial. Guess we will find out.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:17 pm

This is what the defense will say perhaps, about MJ being a ticking time bomb, but if you think about that in terms of what kind of doctor Murray really is then -- pumping him with more propofol and telling everyone MJ was fine, instead of ordering comprehensive tests and figuring out what more propofol will do to MJ's lungs -- this really will play into prosecutions theory that Murray was after money only and could care less about his patient.

So even if defense will bring his lifestyle into play here it is only going to hurt their case, and the jury will hopefully see that.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:31 pm

I dont remember that in the report at all paulie. Not saying its not there, I just dont remember. I do remember he had a lung condition that is found in smokers. Lo and behold they found empty cigarette packs hidden in a suitcase. And it doesnt matter because that was not the cause of his death. Therefore again, to me, has no bearing. It doesnt matter if he was swinging from chandeliers swigging a bottle of whisky and toking on a joint every weekend, none of it killed him. The drugs he took at night to sleep did not kill him for however long he was taking them. Murray comes in, and bam he's dead. Ticking time bomb finally went off? No absolutely not. Coroner said as much. He was not a ticking time bomb, he was actually very healthy. Were it not for the incompetence and lack of give a shit from Murray, Michael would not be dead. I agree that Michael needed help to get to sleep in other ways, but aside from being skinny, I'm going to agree with the experts. He was a healthy 50 year old and without Murray in the equation, wouldnt have died.

Just because I dont think his lifestyle has any bearing on the case doesnt mean they arent going to try. Of course they are. They are going to try to tear his character to shreds. In the end though it is Murray. He gave the drugs, he left the room, he didnt call 911, he tried to cover up and Michael died.


Michael did all the wrong things here by having this done in his home, but he is not the cause of his own death. Its like saying the girl who wears the short skirt got raped and it was her fault for wearing the skirt. It just doesnt fly with me. BUt yeah thats what the defense will try to do.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:48 pm

Ditto @ Dareme... Harsh analogy though tbo.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Well its the only one I could think of concerning bringing something on ones self dunno

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:25 am

Please....there is no denying that MJ had a problem with drugs. To think otherwise is really unrealistic and naive. Now, before anyone starts on me, I am not accusing anyone here of anything. If my choice of words bother some, I am sorry for that.

Here's another analogy....a smoker sues a cigeratte company for getting lung cancer after smoking for 30 years.....

I really doubt Murray will serve any time in jail. He could very possibly be on "probation" for his entire sentence.....according to CA law.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:33 am

No one here is disputing MJ had a drug problem.. We are all highly aware that he did.. If ppl cannot see that they are foolin themselves because how much more in your face could it be??!! I have no doubt Murray will walk free.. In fact, none of us here on the forum believe he will be sentenced.

Here's somethin for ya.. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.. Had Michael injected himself with Propofol Paulie I would be on board but he didn't so I am not.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:59 am

I do no believe MJ injected himself either. What I do believe is that his body had enough...and the combo of drugs finally did him in.

Of course I believe Murray is responsible, since he was his "personal" physician. Even if he isn't sentenced, he will have a civil suit filed against him from MJ's family.



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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:02 am

Something in me feels that wont even happen. Wish it would.. But civil suit will hold someone liable, but they wont serve jail time if found liable.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:16 am

I thought I read some where that Joe Jackson already had a civil suit out on Murray....pending outcome of this trial.

"House arrest" has been mentioned, if Murray if found guilty of gross negligence. Nothing about having his medical license revolked though.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:34 am

GRRRR you would think they would revoke it.. Ima have to think twice about this whole thing if it is not! I dunno about Joe.. A judge would probably deny him.. I dunno why but the courts haven't been very kind to Joe.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:06 am

Is there a hearing today???

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:12 am

Not today because one of the witnesses father died.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:10 pm

It was the Prosecutions last witness....a world renowed anesthesiologist. They are not sure when court wiill start back up.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:09 pm

paulie I never said he didnt have a problem with drugs faceplain I said there was nothing physically wrong with him to have caused his death. The experts said the word "excellent" when describing his physical health. That tells me very plainly that his body did not just give out. If Murray had not given that combo of drugs, leaving him unattended, and failing to call 911, he would still be here today. His body would not have given out as you alluded to by saying he had enough, without those facts.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Trial resumes Wednesday.

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:44 pm

MJ's lungs were messed up. Check out the autopsy. That is not being in "excellent" health as far as I'm concerned and I'm no professional.....lol. I think they were referring to his overall physical health.....

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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:52 pm

Well for someone who was on death's door with his chronic lung disease, he sure was able to huff and puff through this fairly easily... TWICE! :l


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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:08 pm

Exactly Tracy:)


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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Yes, it would "appear".....I myself have to wonder how he felt after the rehearsals. Chronic lung disease is always worse while lying down, when the lungs can't expand as much.
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PostSubject: Re: There was a hearing   Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:47 pm

I don't think he had chronic lung decease. The guy who did his autopsy brushed it off like it was nothing in fact in his testimony. He said some lung scarring. I have scarring in my stomach, apparently, but that does not prevent me from going to a Chinese buffet once in a while. He never even said that it was a point of concern compared to what Murray pumped him with and how he failed as a doctor.

Are we listening to two different trials? I am starting to wonder, paulie.

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