***Trial discussion...opening statements begin today

oops CAN'T TYPE


ARE YOU *^^^**%$$$ KIDDING ME. Why on earth do we have to see that! THAT IS JUST SICK! I AM DONE I CAN NOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE! CALL ME WEAK, I DONT CARE. THIS IS JUST MORMID.
I AM CRYING RIGHT NOW.

I AM JUST GOING TO WAIT FOR THE VERDICT!

I WANT TO REMEMBER MICHAEL WHEN HE WASN'T BEING SLASHED BY THE MEDIA LIES.

Just be prepared CC that actual autopsy photos may surface in the public. If they do I suppose a warning needs to be posted before someone posts them.

From the beginning we have not allowed so called autopsy photos or so called death photos because we dont put up with blatant fakes on something so morbid, but we will not keep out court documented photos. So just be aware everyone that they may surface.

And you will have to go pretty far back CC to remember him before he was slashed by media lies. That's pretty much his whole life....

I don't want those pictures to surface either though. He would not want his fans or anyone else and especially his kids to see him all cut up and in that type of situation. Although turns out his kids did see him dead, but still. I would rather see him in a coffin all tidied up so to speak, than on a gurney with a tube sticking out of his mouth. I know how this sounds, but I think family did him a disservice by doing closed casket funeral.

Yeah I know It is just something that I would rather not see. I watched a few days of the trail, and it is a joke. All it is, is outside the court house, and they show one testimony. Stupid. I don't need to see what La Toya, or Janet are wearing is this a fashion show or a Trial.
I hate the Media. I am not watching it anymore or taping it. I am done. The media will only show us what they want anyway. Like always.

I whole heartedly agree ksk. But we have waited for 2 years for the truth and for a sense of closure so I wont shy away from it. I dont want to see autopsy photos either, I've been dreading it for 2 years, but unfortunately its all we have. We dont have a photo of him looking beautiful in a casket to ease our minds. We dont have the image of peacefulness on his face to ease our minds. We dont have the image of him in his beautiful beaded jacket, his beautiful shell sleeping sweetly while in our minds we drift into that beautiful image of him happy, laughing, smiling, joyfully being free from his lifes burdens, running, playing and singing to the Lord and then looking back at his face and knowing its true and feeling a sense of closure and moving on.

We struggle to remember Michael as we last saw him before that day, but we cant unhear what we have heard and we conjure up our own horrific images of what that day was like and that image sticks in our minds ( at least mine). That hospital picture, even with the tube in his mouth, is as close as its going to get for me to seeing the peacefulness on his face, and seeing, even with that damn tube, that he was still beautiful and not this media conjured bald cancer patient looking old man. I knew he couldnt have been because we saw him up to the day, but still those images stick in your mind when we hear them over and over.

The autopsy photos will be closure for me. That will be his casket for me. Its what we've been given as closure thanks to someone who was completely out of touch with the love Michael and his fans have for each other. This is how I feel and I dont want to be judged by my wanting or not wanting to see the photos. Some of us need to see them and when we do, maybe it wont be the closure we are looking for. Maybe it will raise more questions, but I want to find out. After 2 years of not being able to move on, 1 year of that practically stopping my life in its tracks, I want to find out what it brings. I want to know if I'm always going to wonder or if it will bring that final bit of truth for me to accept. Right now I dont know and thats not good enough for me. If I'm left wondering I'm good with that, but I have to see for myself so that I can try to finally move on.

That was sappy but hopefully you get my point. I dont want anyone to feel judged or feel bad by wanting to see the photos.

CC... TMZ, HLN and CNN are streaming live uninterrupted coverage online of the trial everyday. I watch TMZ. If you cant watch then yeah you are stuck with tv coverage which sucks. HLN and TRU tv are both showing the trial.

CNN.com also has live uninterruped coverage.

I wasn't saying anyone on this forum was sick I was talking about the Media. Although that picture did make me loose hope that Michael is still alive. I don't think if Michael did fake his death that it would go as far as a court session anyway. So, I am starting to except the fact that he is gone. (There still is a glisten of hope, the trial will answer my questions) I will watch the Other Channels I was watching HLN.

No CC I wouldnt think you were saying that at all, but I wanted anyone reading who may think that way to know that some of us feel differently and I dont want anyone to feel bad or be judged for wanting to see them. I want everyone to know at least where I'm coming from with wanting to see them. Now if someone just wants to see a dead Michael Jackson they can go elsewhere and see it. This forum is not the forum for that and I will ban anyone who says anything disrespectful about it, but I know you wouldnt judge any of us CC:)

Conrad Murray's "girlfriends" are suppose to testify this week sometime.....

The two years have been hard on us all. Just think, if Michael had 'died' an old man we wouldn't have had to go through ANY OF THIS.
I'm pretty sick of some people coming along (not on this forum glad to say) and warble on about how (Michael is alive) and this is a journey we have to go on. Well, I'm sorry, I don't think that his fans, who loved him for years and years, NEED TO GO ON ANY JOURNEY.
WE are not the ones who need to learn from his message, FFS.
WE don't need to be told what a wonderful caring loving man he was. WE don't have to pore for hours over his lyrics, to understand what he went through. We went through it with him, especially at the trial.
IF MJ is alive, THIS IS NOT A TEST FOR HIS FANS FFS. Why the hell would he have to test us, for what? Haven't we already been tested enough over the last 20 years?
The poor man was not left in peace during his life, and although I feared for his life 30 years ago, I did not ever foresee this toe-dipping into Hell.
Fortunately, in the UK, we don't have coverage of what the Jacksons are wearing - I think Sky News know better than to do that. We just get what is going on in the court room - although they going to cover the Amanda Knox court case NOW and stop coverage of Murrays trial, gits that they are!

OK, rant over!

I agree Vbond

Just think: if Michael had the ability to fake his death and have so many people involved (hospital personnel, paramedics, etc, or he had the ability to deceive all of them) and help him get away with it, then he would not have had to go through hellish situations in 1993 and 2005 in the first place.

I don't like to judge anybody for what they believe or what they want to believe. Sometimes I even think the truth matters less than what best helps people move along with their lives. For some people the hoax is the answer (I'm not talking about people on this site), then it will serve that purpose.

I have never been a "believer" and have always achknowledged that. Granted, I was not always "well received" by some. Sure in the beginning I might have "toyed" at the remote possiblity, but then my common sense kicked in. I also respect in a way what others want to believe....whatever "floats your boat".

The trial is finally here. This is what the fan's have been waiting for for two years; to find out what did happen to MJ, and why his life was cut short. Sometimes the truth hurts....

I hope when this is all over his family can finally find some kind of closure and begin to heal.

I agree with you, Paulie. The thing about being a non believer is completely and lovingly accepted in the forum. Some were very sure, some on the fence, some not knowing what to believe and some are here to discuss conspiracy to murder. I'm glad you're here and are able to tolerate views that differ from your own.

paulie I whole heartedly respect your non belief of the hoax. I myself dont believe in any hoax. To me a hoax is a joke, getting over on someone with intentions of letting everyone in on it later. I do believe that he could have of faked his death for reasons due to personal safety or just being fed up with it all, and I also believe he could be dead, which is most likely at this point, and if he is dead then he was certainly murdered. I dont believe it was an accident. If this does turn out to be a hoax I will be surprised. And yes every opinion is accepted here though it may be disagreed with.

I hope you have felt welcome here:)

Yes, dareme, I have.

BTW, I was referring to another "hoax" site when I made the comment on not being "well received" and that I was NOT a true fan of MJ if I didn't believe he was alive.

No "true fan" business here! I dont like it at all.

Why does Murray have so many girlfriends? What is so special about him? May be I should hook up with him when he gets out of jail and find out. WTF? They are all pretty cute, young. He's 58, twice their age! Ugly! But I guess he's a pretty good liar. I guess that helps.

And, I guess, his probably got som big balls on him, right? I mean, he has to if he thought he can be doing what he was doing to Michael ( even if at MJ's request ) and not mess up and not get caught eventually...

I've heard a few times today that Murray is 53....

Maybe they fell for that Jamaican/Carribean accent. He only tells da troot ya know.

Ahahaaha!!! I'll tell you da troot....he's a doctor and they probably thought they would be the wife a doctor one day. Probably didnt know about his financial situation! Actress chic aint leaving cuz this is garnering her publicity. Did you see her on the stand?? The attitude, the posturing, I thought she was ditzy. I thought she was awful and I thought she was lying as well on some of her testimony cuz you cant tell me Dr Murray never talked to her about Michaels care. I dont buy that for a second. And that she never asked B.S.

LMAO at big balls. Its gotta be the big balls cuz he aint got no brains

Nicole Alvarez....the wanna-be actress. She is the mother of one of Murray's 7 children. All by different mothers. How he does get around.....

She was playing to the jury for sure. Her posture, body language, smiling and giddy. She was also so inappropriately dressed for court and taking the witness stand. Her high heels were like 6 inches and bare arm!......for shame!

A great move by the prosecution for calling her as a witness.....bravo!

I thought she was inappropriately dressed as well as the other women witnesses all had jackets on. But then I thought wait a minute, she's a stripper anyway. Why bother with a jacket? It would probably look funny on her. That outfit suits her very well.

She was launting her "instruments".......lol

Yeah... I was laughing when Ms Brazil (sp) asked her what she means by instrument. I started imagining her jumping on top of the witness stand and demonstrating her instruments. Hillarious!!

And she was caught in a lie in front if so many people. I am sure jury already figured these two con artists out already. Both Murray and Nicole. I don't believe she did not ask him about the treatment or that he did not tell her. I bet she knows much much more. And her reaction! "I was so excited! C'mon, it's Michael Jackson! I can't believe I met him!". FFS! The man is dead and you are at a trial of his murderer! Calm the fuck down!

Although, I guess lots of people who came in some kind of contact with MJ become a little cookoo about it. The Asian doctor was the same way yeasterday: "When I heard it was VIP named Michael Jackson, I ran downstairs!" I thought the running comment part was unnecessary.

ksk lmfaooooo

Yeah... I was laughing when Ms Brazil (sp) asked her what she means by instrument. I started imagining her jumping on top of the witness stand and demonstrating her instruments. Hillarious!!



paulie and annie yes I too thought she was inappropriately dressed for the courtroom. BTW, did you see the way Latoya was dressed the other day she's not a witness but still, inappropriate for a courtroom!! Annie its funny you mention her being a stripper...I really thought Ms Brazil was trying to get her to say she was working as a stripper but she just kept saying actress.

Well crap I missed most of the testimony so far. I caught it right as they were playing the recording of Michael. I dont know why they played it or what came of it. I missed alot. I missed some after that as well and basically got back to it right as they were breaking. grr!

In my opinion it sounds like Michael was woken up for Murray and he was telling him the reason he was doing the concerts. I dont know why Murray was recording this. He must have been on some demerol or something like that. It wasnt propofol because that was Murrays first day and I think its when he first arrived. We'll see if they provide any further info about it.

If anyone here has read The Rules, then they will know all about how women fall in love with a man's potential, and how some men are happy to let them do it, knowing full well they can then manipulate the women. That is how Murray has all these women - they think he is a good catch, but he is a slippery snake.

I just saw the emails re. the TII illness insurance that were flying about on 24/25 June 2009. So it was illness insurance not life insurance? People kept saying it was life insurance, but the doc I saw on the internet sure didn't read like a life insurance policy to me!
The doc I saw said that the insurers asked for MJs medical records for the past 5 years. According to the emails in court today, MJ refused access to the medical records on the grounds he already has a policy in the US. WHAT? That's news to me!
The insurers wanted MJ to have a second medical in Harley Street AND they wanted to sit in on a rehearsal in London before issuing the policy. So there they were, 3 weeks from TII opening, and still arguing about the insurance. I can't see that Lloyds would have backed down on the records or the second medical. Just seems mighty coincidental that all this was going on whilst MJ was supposedly in the other room 'asleep'.

Oh boy I've got to find a transcrpt. That sounds so interesting. And the little I saw today did seem to me like illness insurance as well. Didnt say anything about the event of his death. But I did miss alot.

Where do you get a transcript? I would like to read through forensic computer expert's testimony today. Has anyone heard Frank's call? It is on TMZ. He called Murray just 5 days before the 25th and talked about some kind of "episode". He said something to the effect that Murray is surely aware of it and that they he Murray should order a blood test on Michael to see what Michael is doing.... Perhaps suggesting that he was using something.

What are the long term effects of using this propofol? It must be wearing out your heart... Or something. I wonder if they will ask Murray or somebody else about this episode? Was it that day that Kenny said he was taking care of Michael??? Did Frank die recently? Was it true or just rumors? They can't ask him if he's dead :(

This is the first I have heard of this ksk. I missed so much today. Yes Frank is dead. If you come across this phone call please post it!

I haven't heard Frank's call, but June 21st (Fathers Day) was when a call was put into Cherilyn Lee about Michael being hot on one side of his body and cold on the other.

So that could be the 'episode' OR

19th June is when Michael was sent home from rehearsal by Kenny Ortgea, because he was unwell.

Do you know what day Frank's call was ksk - was it 21st evening?

Ok, just checked out the TMZ link to Frank's call:

http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/05/people-vs-dr-conrad-murray-investigators-testify-iphone-slurred-recording-michael-jackson-stephen-marx/

It was made on 20th June to Murray (Saturday), the day AFTER Kenny sent Michael home from rehearsals

dareme wrote:

Oh boy I've got to find a transcrpt. That sounds so interesting. And the little I saw today did seem to me like illness insurance as well. Didnt say anything about the event of his death. But I did miss alot.

Here's the thing dareme, you won't find it in the transcrpt.

The emails were put on the overhead projector merely to confirm that they were sent on such and such day. I had to 'fast-read' the content becasue it was not dicussed, and then it was removed from the projector.

On 25th June Murray responded to a whole chain of emails re the insurance. I think the email was sent at 11:17 am. In it he said Michael had refused access to the 5 years of medical records as he already had cover in the US.

From the other emails, it sounded like MJ wanted to have the second medical at his London home. The insurer had said no because of the specialist equipment required, so they had arranged for it to happen in Harley Street, and they were talking about the time to travel from Kent - 50 minutes (which is about right, except in rush hour!!). The appointment was set up for a Monday - think they said 6 July 2009.

dareme wrote:

Just be prepared CC that actual autopsy photos may surface in the public. If they do I suppose a warning needs to be posted before someone posts them.

From the beginning we have not allowed so called autopsy photos or so called death photos because we dont put up with blatant fakes on something so morbid, but we will not keep out court documented photos. So just be aware everyone that they may surface.

dareme, can I ask a favour? If you do post autopsy phots, can you start a new thread and put a load of warnings in the subject? I for one can't handle pics like this and don't wnt to stumble across them by accident. They will stick in my head forever. FOREVER.

The entire 4 minute recording Murray taped of MJ was played yesterday in court. It was heartbreaking. So much pain.....sad.

Yes. Very sad. It did feel when you listen to the whole thing as if he could not literally turn his brain off. It is on CNN website in the videos section.

Thanks for the info Vbond. And when and if those photos surface there will definitely be a separate thread because I know not everyone wants to see them. Its possible that a link would be put to them instead of posting them in the body of a message so that way no one can accidentally stumble upon them.

ksk this is what I hear when I hear that tape....I hear the exact same thing he would have said stone cold sober. He had a presence of mind. He wasnt talking nonsense he just sounded heavily sedated. Its 9 in the morning and he was probably awakened by Murray when Murray arrived. Think if you had taken something to go to sleep and in the middle of being asleep you got woke up and someone was having a conversation with you. I mean I think it was probably something along those lines. He was falling asleep at the time of this recording or he was woken up. He sounds sedated, groggy, and he kinda sounds like he's had something done to the mouth area like dental work or lip injections or something. I'm curious if there any medical records to shoe if he saw Klein that evening or that morning. I dont know about not turning his brain off, I think Murray purposely engaged him. I mean why was he recording him? I hope we find out.

*All these people saying how oh MJ's voice was really deep and he faked his high voice...He didnt have a high voice since the early 90's, he was soft spoken most of the time but nothing like his early days, and yes I believe he did fake it back then, but if they ever took the time to actually listen to him they would have heard his deeper voice. And I know that when you are sedated, hell even when you first wake up or are first falling asleep, your voice can be deeper than how it sounds on a regular basis. Sometimes I wonder if these people have actual brain. Harvey.

Chernoff is reaping Ms. Fleak (coroner investigator) apart! I don't like what I'm hearing at all. She is not admitting to mistakes, but I bet jury is hearing and feeling the same things I am hearing and seeing and feeling - yes, there were mistakes made. If they wanted to present an air tight case, they should have been more precise in evidence collection and documentation. Just sounds like a mess! They don't have all pictures present to dispute what Chernoff is saying... She for some reason destroyed her original notes (which she says she does in every case, but why keep some and destroy some). It does not sound good....

I have missed the first hour of testimony but what I have seen so far I dont see anything relevant to Murray killing Michael. She can destroy her notes, not takes pics of something, forget what she was wearing but in the end what at all does that have to do with Murray leaving his patient to die???

Yep dareme. In the UK, the trial is on Sky and a British lawyer who has worked in LA said that there are only certain ways that the defence can question witnesses. One of the ways is to try and discredit the witness and therefore put doubt into the jurys mind about their reliability and therefore their statements.
This is what Chernoff has been trying to do - he did it with Alvarez and now Fleak. They do not seem to have much else to go on, so the defence are labouring the discrediting process, and it is pissing off me and the judge too, apparently! Did you see all that theatre when Chernoff was writing Alvarez's testimony on a flipchart? What was the point of that? To make Alvarez uncomfortable so he messes up his testimony?
I was actually laughing because Chernoff was giving these heavy sighs when questioning Fleak, cos he couldn't get her to say what he wanted her to say! LOL

LOL yes I know. I know that they are trying to mess these people up but I hope the jury realizes that they are making these small things look bigger in order to create doubt and realize it has nothing to do with the final outcome. I have to say though, I've been on a jury and there are just some people who really dont care and they just want to go home so they'll vote whatever gets them there faster

Yeah. It won't affect the outcome. This case is so plain clear. His way of questioning always drives me nuts even though I'm not on that witness stand. That's why I didn't watch today.

Nothing about this case is "plain and simple". Things can change from day to day. All the defense has to do is plant that seed of doubt with the jury. Ms. Fleak did make several mistakes, but the first time she was at the house (June 25 early evening) the case was not yet considered to be a homicide.

Exactly paulie. Nothing criminal was indicated the first time they were there. At that point certain things didnt matter. And no the case itself isnt plain and simple. There are alot of complex things to go through, but to me personally, it is plain and simple(or plain and clear as annie said) that Murray is guilty and Michael did not do this himself. I just hope the jury comes to this conclusion and doesnt buy into the defenses attempts at reasonable doubt.

I hope the prosecution can come back tomorrow and clear up some of this stuff from the defense.

They will be ending earlier in the afternoon too for Yom Kippur.

IMO, that grey hairded defense attorney is real dickhead. He likes to ask hypothetical questions of the witness testifying. Jurors don't remember hypothetical questions. They (the witness testifying) all have had "bewildered" looks on their faces at times. He's nasty and condescending.

I guess by that regards, he is good at what he does.